The First Contactless Only Station (No Oyster)

Does freedom pass work on the contactless only machines? As it’s technically not an oyster. If not then what are old people gonna do. Use cash? Cos many don’t have cards.

So why cant we just go through the station and then go to a station one away from where we need to go, tap in, and then tap in when we arrive...

Hows my home gonna be in zone 15

So there are that many zones north of the river but they can't bring the underground south of it?

What if you are a tourist and your card doesn’t work? Or you loose your contactless? How are you gonna travel? There should be multiple options at every station.

I fail to see what the problem is. Oyster cards should only be valid in Greater London. If you are going outside, use contactless, or buy a paper/downloadable ticket.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, and I am quite sure others think the same, but they are making us use technology to see where we go whereas with money they couldn't track us.

Do you also do a podcast? Wonderful interesting video sir.

What a boneheaded idea...

Am curious what the benefit of an Oyster card is over just using your regular contactless bank card? Are the fares cheaper? Speaking as an occasional commuter to London from Surrey where I can use my contactless card without having to buy a paper ticket, I just continue using the same card as I travel around London. Surely, considering it's technical limitations, Oyster will eventually be phased out in favour of just bank-card contactless?

NYC Subway: All fares $2.75
London Underground: Transport for London's Travelcard zones to calculate the fares, including fares on the Underground only. Travelcard Zone 1 is the most central, with a boundary just outside the Circle line and Travelcard Zone 6 is the most outlying zone covering any of Greater London and it includes London Heathrow Airport. All of Greater London is covered by zones 1 to 6.
Tickets including zone 1 are usually more expensive than those involving only outer zones. The most popular destinations and most interchange stations are in zone 1, meaning that most journeys over similar distances will cost the same. A few stations in the north east of the network, on the Central line, outside Greater London (in the Epping Forest district) are in zones 4, 5 and 6. In the north west of the network, on the Metropolitan line, zones 7, 8 and 9 (formerly A - D) cover stations outside Greater London including Amersham and Chesham in the Chiltern district of Buckinghamshire. Unlike the lower numbered zones, these ancillary areas do not encircle the capital. Some stations are in two zones. Most often, they are on the boundary of two adjacent zones: For example, Vauxhall is in Zones 1 and 2. Ten stations in east London, many in the London Borough of Newham area, are in both zone 2 and 3: Abbey Rd, Bromley-by-Bow, Canning Town, East India, Pudding Mill Lane, Star Lane, Stratford, Stratford High Street, Stratford International and West Ham. This creates the situation where two consecutive stations on a radial route are in both zones - West Ham and Bromley by Bow; Stratford and Pudding Mill Lane; Canning Town and East India. A traveller a two-zone station can, in effect, 'save' a zone and perhaps therefore pay a cheaper fare. For example, travelling to West Ham from any zone 2 station is a single zone journey, but so is travelling there from any zone 3 station.

But why... is it so complex to read an oyster card? What's the issue with using Oyster everywhere where you can use contactless?

Why cannot the UK have a national travel card like the Dutch, who use their OV card to travel on bus, train, tram. Ok there ares till price differences between modes of transport, but, it means one card for everything. Plus you can top up at any load station positioned on each station or in some places like a supermarket, post office, special shops that have them..Simple i think.

You went on that long journey just to see if what their paper-work said was correct?

The OV Chipcard used in The Netherlands sounds much easier... You add balance to it, at least 20 euros or more to travel by train (can automatically recharge via bank) and you just use it like you would with an oyster card, nothing with zones or anything. Works for trains, underground, buses and NS Bikes. Oh and students can use it for free (bikes not included -_-) either throughout the week, or throughout the weekend, you can choose.

It 2100 and iverness is in zone 5555

So if you don't carry a mobile phone, just what can you use?

So, apparently, Oyster cards will not be usable from West Drayton to Reading for te reasons you explain. However, TfL have said that 60+ Freedom Passes will be valid on the route provided TfL services are used.

My 60+ card clearly states Oyster - so is it actually an Oyster card or is is a disguised Contactless? Come 15th December, I will be trying it out to see how well it works (or not).

Why don't TFL just create two maps? One for Crossrail, the other for everything else. Wouldn't that make sense?

Far from scrapping the paper Tube map, as mentioned at the end, there are mutterings about scrapping the fold-out London Rail & Tube Map as (allegedly) take-up is reducing. Not surprising when it's not available at Tube stations and you have to ask for it at most others!

Oyster Version 2.0 could be an Oyster-branded stored balance debit card, issued in partnership with either Visa or Mastercard. You could use such a card to buy things other than transport.

I am completely against this. The whole point of oyster is to have a simplified system where you can use the card everywhere. If they start having stations that don't allow them then that completely defeats the point

I am confused about the new trains on this line. It was my understanding all UK trains must have a certain percentage of yellow on the front for visibility, do you know much about why these trains are allowed to bypass this rule?

Why is shenfield zone 12 when Brentwood is 9 and just round the corner? Same rule as Epping?

Thank your lucky stars. I just returned from Sydney where not only do you you have to remember to tap out of busses, let alone trams!

Are we going to get to a stage where there are no guards on trains and no one is going to bother paying to travel to a station like this with no barriers from a similar set up of station. Where i travel from in surrey there is no barriers either end of trip and never a guard to check anyone. They counter the loss by putting prices up again year on year and even more lose interest!

Probably the worst idea ever.

Will St Albans be Oyster or contactless only?

This is stupid, not everyone wants to use Contactless Cards. Just another way for the Government to track people

What da heck I'm I watching

Does nobody get the fact that in the not so distant future there will be no such thing as travelling anonymously. Everybody will be tracked, no cash fares, just contactless bank cards. We live in a surveillance society. Look around You.

Oyster is faster than contactless. Yes it’s minimal, but across the entire network that total additional time per day would be an interesting calculation.

Mate quality video. But i have no idea what I'm doing watching it lmao

I thought Reading was going to be in zone 10.. at least that's what an earlier video of yours suggested (:--:)

I use to live near Brookmans park. And it’s nice

Just to say.....the recent announcement that Crossrail won’t be completed and up & running until March 2021 should be read as the EARLIEST date that it will be fully open. Trust me👍🏻
And even when it does open, I’ll still be using the Piccadilly Line (or the Heathrow Express if I’m in a real hurry) to get to LHR. I refuse to pay Scammer Khan’s rip-off supplementary LHR fare on Crossrail. He (as the decision-maker) should be ashamed of himself👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻

If they can’t add oyster then why bother? Should just not be in the London fare zone and you’ll need to buy paper tickets

Not a good idea there are multiple groups of people this will severely impact:
1. Minors. Minors can't open bank accounts or credit cards so they won't be able to pay the fares on this contactless only reader. How the hell will they be able to use the system now?
2. Tourists. Banks charge ridiculous bullshit fees called "foreign transaction fees" they can rack up quick and many times tourists will only use cash for this sole reason. I guess more money for the greedy Banks right TFL?

Watched this whole thing, and being American, I have no idea what the hell this all means.

Heck Geoff this is confusing..
Thank goodness my £75 all service IOM Rail Platinum ticket is easy to remember .. 😉

I don't understand why they'd phase out the Oyster card. Whatever next. The class 717 has no character and looks sterile.

This is inadvertently costing us more money. Thieving bastards. Eventually it will be the death of the Oyster card, and the introduction of the 'Beast System', a microchip embedded into one's hand. God help us.......

Geoff, could you do a video about the new barriers which now separate the fast side of a platform from the slow side?

Sure hope they move that )))) contactless symbol ;-) :-D

You lost me after the first 2 mins, thank god i live up north.

Those of us who have synch'ed their rail cards with Oyster need to be careful not to use contactless cards unless we are guaranteed the same discount. Time to update the Oyster system with a proper mobile payment system that recognises discounts.

The more interedting question is, why? Is that the beginning of the end of Oyster?

So is this the beginning of the end for Oyster? I would be ok with that were it not for the fact that railcards aren’t compatible with Contactless.

Geoff, the reason why Oyster is not being supported on these stations outside the core London zones 1-6 is that TfL are not interested in running the Oyster card scheme. It costs them (TfL) money as Oyster is a proprietary system from Cubic. Whilst it is supported at places such as Heathrow and Gatwick, you will begin to see stations outside zones 1-6 being converted into contactless stations. It's all to do with ITSO and DfT wanting to push their standard onto the rest of the UK Rail and public transport networks. Shame the technology is 15 years too late. Having contactless only means that you only have to process payment card data, not hold data on customers and thereby reducing potential GDPR issues (with data leaks).

So what happens if you have a student oyster

just another way to confuse the public in to giving our money to tfl. so many ways to pay you cant just rely on one no thats to easy. you have to have all of them as if traveling wasn't hard enough. another thing i hate is if you tap into the wrong station with a contactless card and ask to leave you cant get you're money back but with oyster you can be refunded there and then.

It’s silly because what if you have a zone 1 to 6 travel card but does that mean you have to get off at zone six and then re-tap in on your contactless card?

There are a few flaws in contactless only. Foreigners won't be able to access the station because almost all banks don't allow contactless to work outside of the country, let alone a different currency. Additionally, there are children who are too young for contactless cards and use a zip Oyster

It’s silly, Oyster should be extended nation wide, also, it’s a strange feeling seeing you at the village station where I grew up.

Could they update the system used by Oyster ? I mean, Ireland has TFI Leap which works all over the country, and IC cards in Japan that are released by JR Group are largely compatible with each other.

This is a liberty, I always tell people to always use an oyster card and not contactless, they can take any amount they choose on a contactless card! If you forget to tap out the staff can immediately refund your oyster card they can't do that on your debit card, this is not good

All those new stations far out of London have been added... But still no oyster in Stains..

I live in Twyford and welcome the contactless at the station, each time a get a ticket for Reading or London I have three pieces of paper. Better to have it all electronic, don't bother with the phone thing it is rather flaky in my experience. Crossrail, looking forward to it.

but I've only got an oyster, what about those who don't have or want to use contless?

So u can't use zip cards? What about teenagers who don't have credit/debit cards

I wonder if this would lead to the phasing out of oyster cards for contactless or something that can work on a more wider scale than London.

I think they charge extra for using a credit card... ways to make money I guess

St Albans City - Luton Airport also getting contactless (no Oyster) at the end of this month - The readers they've installed don't have the orange stickers though and just look like normal readers though which is interesting. Kinda silly not to bring it up to Bedford though - only 5 other stations of which 2 are actually busy.

This seams stupid. So if you have a public transport card, you should not be able to use it everywhere. Also if you hit the max fee on a card and then need to use another card, and pay again...

So I have to get my son his own credit card now!

Another reason not to visit London.

As a none Londoner, your ticketing systems and prices are just so confusing 🤦🏼‍♂️

Could be worse: you could have your fare system run by Metrolinx/Presto! :P

Time to bump train

This is stupid and unneeded why not just put a oyster reader in which reads both contactless and oyster

Extending contactless coverage a few stations at a time give me an idea: Why not have all National Rail, Tube, local rail, etc. stations accept contactless cards, with the same fee system, and travel would be far easier and less confusing? If only we could get all operators to agree (umm... nationalisation?).

All it is is places outside of london are not being able to use oyster. I think that's not as big of an issue as people are making out.

the issue is that not everyone has/can get an oyster card. i moved back to the uk after having lived abroad for several years and you have to have lived in the uk for 3 years to get a contactless card.

Ah the sticker I put up at Ealing. It has been replaced by a larger sign now. Looks much nicer.

Why are public transport fares in the UK so arbitrary? I get that frequent users should get a discount, I get that different travel times affect price, but whether you are paper ticket, Oyster or Contactless it should be the same fare. Taking my kids to London has proven to be almost impossible to take advantage of discounted u16 fares. These days it should be simple to set up a given card (of any type) to a user/discount profile.

4 bits is 16 different numbers...did you forget zero or is that excluded for some reason?

I wonder now, would it be cheaper to still get a paper ticket with a railcard to travel from Paddington to Reading then to use contactless? Because i presume it will be the same fare just that there's a more convenient way of getting through the barriers if you're in a rush and haven't bought a ticket

My brain hurts

Now I'm puzzled. aiui Freedom Pass (& U16 & staff) are valid - by law - on all bus and rail services operated by TfL, which includes CrossPurpLiz. So will the 'not Oyster' machines accept these special Oysters?

I don't have a contactless bank card - therefore will I be forever trapped in limbo at the station?

I watched this in full and I still don't understand why you can't use oyster here? Is it that there is a limit on how many stations they can allocate oyster to?

How would this work for seasons, particularly Travelcard seasons? You can't put those on contactless.

Of course there is no need to *buy* a paper ticket to test it out whether contactless is cheaper than a paper ticket. Just get a quote from the ticket machine, then cancel the purchase

I've recently noticed that Forest Gate station has Purp roundels on at least one platform, rather than the standard "TfL Rail" roundels.

So what soon we can only use our bank cards? This is fucked. So if they don't want you to travel they can just freeze your account. Can't even use cash. Wtf?

Doesn't appear to be any barriers though so you just walk off?
Surely this is already true once you pass out of zone 6 (ie. Feltham) on way to Reading the Oyster is not valid so you get a penalty fare, go to jail etc. Just another way of HM Railways ripping us customers off. Cool

So if the definition of London that it's anywhere you can use an oyster card, will reading soon be included?

Sadiq Khan broke his promise to freeze all fares in about 5 minutes. This is now the gradual erosion of Oyster and thus annual tickets. Think how much money they could make if the punish the regular commuters some more. It's not good.

The age of automation has arrived. What a soulesss place this country is about to become.

That's got to be the beginning of the end for Oyster then, doesn't it? This is how TfL talks about Oyster in their press release:
"Pay as you go with Oyster will not be extended to services beyond West Drayton, due to limitations with the system, which is now more than 15 years old. Millions of journeys in and around London are already being made using contactless every day; with 60 per cent of rail pay as you go journeys made using contactless."

Hoped you would have shown the Dartford zone switch , what's perp short for in American English. What's the price per mile on oyster.
I rarely use public transport,each time I do something has changed to add further inconvenience.

That’s easyJet orange.

So what happens to the Oyster card if you forget the station you wish to tap out in doesn't take Oyster but you tapped in with it.
Does it charge you a maximum fee or does it register you tapped out but tell you an error?
You should be able to tap out with all methods that are used to tap in, even if certain stations don't allow you to tap in with that method.

Surely Oyster's days are numbered? I never use mine now. Maybe they should only use it for foreign visitors now, kind of like how the HK metro does.

Only a few more miles more and you'll have the same travel card system as we have in the whole of the netherlands. Imagine oyster but for the entire country (and bikes as well!!)

This is so geeky, but I love it.

I'm wondering what will happen for season tickets on the Elizabeth Line. If the Reading branch is not going to be Oyster compatible, and TfL are not going to want to encourage paper ticket usage, will TfL have to introduce an ITSO smart card for these people, if so will they replace Oyster with it across the whole network (Oyster 2.0?)

This is literally just stupidity.

Very informative- thank you 😊

With Contactless, how do you prove you touched in? How do ticket inspectors check?